5 "Wussy Signals" Women Notice Instantly
Talking to women is a SKILL. And it can be
LEARNED. If you have trouble talking to women,
making them laugh, and connecting with them
quickly, then take go and read THIS:
http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/CockyComedy/
***QUESTION***
Hey Dave!
I'm finally starting to "get it". It took a long
time (lots of e-mails read, e-book read, cds
listened, and seminar attended), but one night it
just clicked, and i'm now starting to get some e-
mail/phone numbers. And i'm getting the tea dates
going.
I had one amazing realization today - whenever i
DON'T get an initial meeting after getting the e-
mail, i don't do what i used to which is get
depressed, find fault in myself, and figure i'll
never get anybody. Now, since i'm working on this
next step of getting the initial meeting, i just
see it as a recipe. Maybe with girl "A" i was too
C and not enough F. Maybe with girl "B" I'm not
making her feel comfortable enough of meeting at
my place. I realized that with practice i'll get
the "recipe" right and be able to turn any e-mail
into an initial date. That new mindset has taken a
LONG time to get to and it's mostly due to your
info. Thanks!!
Question: Tonight's first date went really well! I
was "almost too comfortable" and was totally calm
and cool. Poked fun at her, never answered any
questions directly, and i didn't sit around
worrying about whether or not she liked me. and i
could almost tangibly feel the attraction being
amplified!!! But i found out during the date that
she's a single mom. Now, i, personally, don't like
to date single moms for various reasons - not even
for a one-night stand. (a lot of guys disagree and
that's cool - this is my own thing). Could you
suggest a way to ask this prior to the first date?
Perhaps it's my own limiting belief, but it seems
that by asking this, i'm implying that i'm looking
at her as possible long-term material.
Thanks a lot and everybody reading this: BUY THE
CD'S....THEY ROCK!!!
R.
>>>MY COMMENTS:
Well, thanks for the shameless advertising
plug... I really appreciate it.
No, really.
OK, you've asked a VERY interesting question.
It's interesting not because of the content of
the actual question... but more because of what
it SAYS about you and what you're thinking.
When you say, "Can you tell me how to ask a
woman if she has kids before a first date?" it
implies that you think that there's something
wrong with just coming out and asking it.
It's like you're saying, "Well, I know that I
can't just ASK her if she has kids... so can you
tell me some cool trick to get her to spill it
without me having to ask?".
Well guess what?
THIS IS A PROBLEM.
It's not necessary to use trickery when you
want to know something about a woman.
If you want to know if a woman has kids, then
you need to ASK.
Say "Hey, do you have any kids?".
If she says, "Yes", then say, "Great. I'm
really looking for a woman who doesn't have any
kids, but we can be friends."
Let's use a different example.
Let's say you've placed a personal ad online.
Let's say that a cute woman replies.
Let's say that she sends you a picture... but
it only shows her face... and you're only
interested in women who are slim.
Now, you probably would write to me and ask me
to give you some slick way to get her to share how
much she weighs with you without having to ask.
Wrong idea.
Just email her and say, "Hey, how tall are you
and how much do you weigh? I really prefer women
who are slim. Let me know...".
That's it.
Think about it.
If she IS slim, she'll tell you, and probably
be glad that you were up front with her and
direct.
If she ISN'T slim, she'll be glad you told her
now and didn't waste her time.
I think that your problem is probably rooted in
insecurity, and caring too much what other people
think of you.
...by the way... it's NOT OK to say, "Hey, I
really HATE FAT CHICKS... so tell me now, because
if you're fat I'm going to bail...".
That's not cool.
If you act like an adult and expect others to
act like adults, you'll do well with women.
If you pussy-foot around the issue (a perfect
term for you and this) you'll wind up trying to do
things that waste everyone's time.
If you're upfront, direct, and not caring what
other people think of you, then you're going to
make women respond more powerfully.
Guaranteed.
Oh, and GREAT JOB getting your act together
with women. You're doing very well, keep it up.
And feel free to promote my materials anytime you
want in the future.
***COMMENT FROM A WOMAN***
Dear David,
I've been reading your email newsletters...not
because I'm a male needing advice, but because I
am a FEMALE who likes to get insight into what men
are thinking! I'll have to say that what you are
telling these guys is right on target.
I have a girlfriend who is a perfect 10, but she
has the worst luck with men. Know why? They are
TOO NICE TO HER!!!!!!!! I was sitting out by the
pool with her this past weekend, and listening to
her talk about the latest guy she's dating. He's
cute, attentive, sweet, thoughtful, generous,
funny, and a tiger in bed!! BUT, she told me that
he isn't the "one." I asked her why, and this is
exactly what she said, "He's too agreeable.
Everything I say is OK with him...anything I want
to do, go, or think is OK with him. I'm getting
bored. He doesn't have enough personality for me.
He's always smiling, and my thirteen year old
daughter even says he's a wuss for being so nice
all the time. I want a man who's a challenge."
Now, this woman sees this other guy from time to
time, and she'd drop what she's doing and drive 6
hours just to spend one night with him! But that
guy doesn't call regularly and he treats her
poorly, but she'd give her first born child to
have him!
No, it doesn't make sense, David, but that is the
way a lot of Number 10 women are. And if a guy
really wants a 10, your techniques would work like
a charm. Just warn these guys that 10's are very
difficult women to deal with, and they are used to
having every guy's attention, so they need to keep
the game up to keep her from straying. I wish guys
would see that the 10's, although they are pretty
to look at, aren't always worth the effort. My
friends who are 5's would treat men better, if
they could get their attention.
Me? I'm about a 7-8 but I use your techniques on
MEN, and they work quite well. A year ago, I was
dating 4-5 men at time. The one guy that I cared
the least about and brushed off time and again, is
the one I'm dating all the time now! He just hung
in there no matter how many dates I cancelled or
even if I told him I had another date! I even told
him I was dating lots of other men! But, he just
hung in there, and I got tired of the others, and
now I only date him, and we're happy! Oh, I do
still give him a challenge! I am not always
available, and I don't call him often, nor email
him all the time, and when he goes out of town on
work, I don't get all jealous and worry. I don't
have to worry. He can't wait to get back to ME!
He cooks for me and treats me like a Queen.
So...tell those guys this little secret about
women. The 10's love it when you are a challenge,
and they may end up with a 10, but remember that
those women can be the most difficult. Give the
lower numbers a chance sometimes, and they will
find a devoted mate!
Later..
K in SC
>>>MY COMMENTS:
Amen SISTER!
Preach it!
You gotta love honest women.
And you've laid it out for everyone to see.
I wish all men had an older sister like you who
could tell them how it is from an early age...
But, alas, we do not.
I'm going to go read your email again, because
it's GOLD.
Send a picture next time. I promise that I'll
NEVER call you all the time, and I'll NEVER
tolerate you canceling anything on me.
Of course, then you'd fall in love with me, and
I'd have to break your heart.
What a life.
***QUESTION***
Hi there David
Firstly, I would like to say how useful I have
found your Advanced DVD series and DYD book. I
used to be a classic textbook Wussy but that way
of life is definitely going out of the window now!
I have had two emails from two different women
recently (after using your stuff) and I quote them
here as I think all Wussies should read them. The
first one is from a woman who I've known for a
number of years and see her with her friends on
the odd occasion:
`Dating should indeed be fun and relaxed but sadly
most of your gender seem to have forgotten this -
were you not taken to one side at school and told
to be arrogant and aloof etc?? I think some of
them might be due for a refresher course as they
get far too serious, far too quickly. It is not to
be encouraged!! XXXX (the name of the guy) is
doing pretty well at the moment though and only
sees me a couple of times a week and never rings
and hardly ever emails, so he has the right idea!!
I think I have been quite vocal about my disdain
of other boys recently though, so he knows not to
push it.'
This second reply is from a woman I sent a message
to on an Internet dating site. I based the message
around your advice from your Advanced Dating
series:
`YIPEEEEEEEEE!!!!AN OUT OF THE ORDINARY MAN ON
HERE!!!!!!!!!
Im on 189 mens 'fav' list an i can tell u now, so
far not one of em has made me want to know more!
Can u restore my faith....Hummmmm tall order, u
like a challenge?'
It's definitely worth getting your DVD and book as
I would never have had these responses otherwise.
My question is how do I take things further when
meeting women on line? I have watched your friend
on the Advanced DVD series but don't seem to be
able to get the required results. I have started
to get lots of responses from hot women after
sending them a Cocky & Funny message. We then
message each other a few times but suddenly they
stop replying! What am I doing wrong? I try and
use Cocky & Funny but also write `normal' stuff
like what do they like doing etc which I know can
be classed as Wussy talk. Your views would be
gratefully received. Also can you tell your friend
to write that book about Meeting Women On Line -
and put me top of the list to buy it! Keep up the
great work!
J
London, England
>>>MY COMMENTS:
Yes, yes, yes...
You're getting it... you're getting it.
But what are you doing writing NORMAL stuff and
asking NORMAL questions?
I can't believe after spending hours and hours
and hours listening to me talk about why it's
stupid to say lame NORMAL stuff that you'd still
do it.
STOP THAT IMMEDIATELY... don't make me come
down there and bitch-slap the Wuss out of you.
I'll do it. I will.
And you're surprised that women stop responding
to you...
Here, do this.
From now on:
1) Watch the personals every day. Only send
messages to the NEW ads.
2) When you get a reply, email and ask her for her
number. Tell her that you're swamped with a
million messages from supermodels who keep
bragging about how much money they have, and she
needs to act fast or you'll be gone.
3) Get her number as soon as possible, and get her
ON THE PHONE.
4) DO NOT, under ANY circumstances talk about lame
NORMAL stuff.
5) Watch my Advanced DVD Series again. And don't
turn it off until you're reminded of why you
shouldn't say "normal" things.
6) Write another email to me in a week or so when
you're getting better results.
Now get back in there, stop acting normal, and
make something happen!
***SUCCESS STORY***
David,
First of all, thanks again for the valuable
newsletters and the information from your Ebook. I
purchased it a couple months ago and still refer
to it quite often. On to my success story. I was
recently at a buddies bachelor party and the only
single guy out of five. One of our stops was a
downtown bar where my friends wanted to see me go
to work. I found a table with 6 blondes talking
to two guys. One of the dudes looked like a cross
between Ricky Martin and Eminem and the other I
believe was sporting a Member's Only jacket. I
immediately took advantage of the situation and
swooped in to save the day with C&F on overdrive.
I'm not the kind of guy that women approach so
I've learned that if I want to make something
happen, I've got to grab a hold and go for it. The
next thing I know the two guys got up and left and
then the rest of my buddies came in for support.
Married guys make the best "Wingmen". The best
part of the night was getting the number of the
hottest one of their group, something I would have
never done in the past. We spoke on the phone and
have made plans to see each other again. There's a
saying. "If you keep doing what you've always
done, you're going to get what you've always got."
I just wanted to say thanks for allowing me the
opportunity to stop settling and most importantly
stop being a wuss. You da man!! P in Colorado
>>>MY COMMENTS:
Yeah babyyyyyyy!
The reason I love your story so much is because
I'm not the kind of guy that women approach
either. I never have been.
But, after learning this stuff, I've realized
that it's just not necessary to be that kind of
guy.
In fact, most of the guys I know who are the
MOST successful with women aren't particularly
good-looking.
Everything changes when you have a superior
understanding of what's going on... and a set of
tools to get the job done.
Nice, and keep sending in the stories.
By the way, if you want more great ideas for
approaching women... and even approaching big
GROUPS of women, then you MUST check out my
"Approaching Women" DVD/CD program. Inside you
will meet and learn from some of the best
"approachers" in the world... and they'll teach
you some of the most AMAZING techniques for
approaching women... alone, in groups, in every
type of situation...
You can watch some video clips, plus get all
the details here:
http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/ApproachingWomen/
***QUESTION***
Dear David,
I must say KUDOS to you for creating a new man
out of me. Let me explain myself. I ordered your
ebook a while ago and have been getting your
newsletter for the better part of a year. However,
only recently, I decided enough is enough. I
started putting what I read into action to see
what happens. Of course, it really helps that I'm
a well-built muscular tall, dark and handsome man
(LOL). Ain't that what the ladies are looking for?
To clarify in terms of specs, I'm 5'11", of South
Indian origin, and I've been a recreational
bodybuilder for going on 14 years now.
The nightclub I like to frequent to dance in has
a lot of gorgeous women, several easily 9's and
10's. Well, the other night, I approached a girl
who was without a doubt AT LEAST a 10. She was
acting very coy and detached to anybody but the
crowd of guys and girls she was with. Since she
was wearing a cabbie-style hat, I came up to her
and said, "Hey, I like your hat." She smiled and
said, "Thanks" but still was kind of stuck up. So,
then, I said, "Let me guess, you're a taxi-
driver." She looked at me with a "there's NO way
you just said that to me" shocked expression on
her face BUT THEN, she instantly warmed up to me
and replied with a BIG smile on her face, "No,
I'll bet you are though." Well, Dave, I'm a
doctor and I'm sure it helped for her to hear that
but the rest of the night, she was rubbing up
against me and holding me tight, even grinding
with me on the dance floor. What's even more
surprising is that her boyfriend was part of the
crowd and since I introduced myself to the rest of
the group, he was cool with me hanging with them.
I'm willing to bet that if he had not been there,
she would have tried to kiss me and probably even
make out with me. You are definitely THE MAN, THE
MYTH, THE LEGEND, David DeAngelo. Thank you. Now
I apologize for such a long account but I did want
to demonstrate the scenario carefully if anyone
can benefit from it. My question to you is
quite simply this: Why is it that some women seem
totally enamored in person and act like they want
to go out but then never return your phone calls
or initiate calls themselves? I mean, I can tell
that they are not faking their interest in me and
so, what happens once they leave from my presence?
T.M. Michigan
>>>MY COMMENTS:
What?
You mean to tell me that even tall, dark, and
handsome body-builder guys need help, too?
LOL...
It's funny, because most guys don't realize
that even good-looking guys have all the same
challenges with women...
I mean, it certainly doesn't HURT to be a
handsome guy, but women do all the same things, no
matter what a guy looks like.
Back to your question.
Here's the deal, man...
Unfortunately, many attractive women have VERY
low self-esteem.
Many (if not most) of the REALLY attractive
women that you see out on the town are really out
to get ATTENTION.
In other words, they're not looking to meet a
good guy... they're not looking to find someone
who will treat them well... they're not looking
for "love."
They're looking to fill an empty part of their
self-image.
Attention makes many women feel good. Some
women actually enjoy getting attention from guys,
then acting like they DON'T LIKE IT.
Hey, I never said women made sense.
Have you ever known a woman who wears low-cut
blouses, then complains because guys only look at
her breasts while talking to her?
DUH.
If a woman complains about something like this
to me, I'll say something like, "You know, now
that you mention it... are those REAL?"
LOL...
It's crazy.
Look, here are a few things to remember:
1) A woman will behave differently according to
her MOOD. If she's happy when she's with you, then
she might act like she's enjoying herself. If you
call the next day and she's depressed because she
still has no self-esteem, then she's probably not
going to call you.
2) ATTRACTION is the key. You must realize that if
you dial up the attraction by creating Sexual
Tension, etc. then you'll have a much stronger
chance of seeing her again.
3) Don't chase. When you talk to her again, make
sure you don't communicate that you NEED
anything... especially attention or approval.
4) Lose the need to have every woman like you. One
big weakness that most men have is a woman who
won't call back. But remember, women are the same
way. Read the email at the beginning of this
newsletter from the attractive woman for details.
5) You always have options. When you know how to
meet women anytime you want, then it doesn't
matter what happens in a particular situation. And
if it doesn't matter, women can SENSE it. This is
a VERY attractive quality.
You're on the right track...
***QUESTION***
David, I've been a huge fan for the past 2 years
and just received your Advanced Series CD set a
week or so ago. HOLY COW!!! It's the best money
I've EVER spent. I've gotten more phone numbers,
been on more dates and HAD MORE SEX in the past
7-8 days than I have in the past 6 months. We're
talking 180-degree shifts in my interactions with
women...I'm at 100% success right now. To all the
guys out there, attitude is EVERYTHING. KNOW that
you can have any girl you want, let that reflect
onto girls and they WILL smell your confidence.
And, to women, that's very sexy!!! Now, onto my
question... How do Cocky-Funny, self-validating,
confident men deal with attention-getting comments
from women? For example, the other day I'm on the
telephone with one of the girls I met recently and
she was complaining about her hair style. She
says, "A., I look SOOOOO ugly with this hair" (she
STILL was an absolute knock out actually!!). Now,
I thought to myself, What Would David Do in this
situation? Would he tell her, "Oh no sweetie, you
look gorgeous". I thought that seemed pretty
wussy, so I says to her, "Listen here, I didn't
call you so I could listen to you complain...".
Are cocky-funny remarks the right way to deal with
this type of female complaining? Is it just a test
to see if we'll give in to their little games?
KEEP IT UP DAVID!!! Ciao!
A, Indiana
>>>MY COMMENTS:
You are on the RIGHT TRACK here.
Next time a woman complains about herself or
tries to get attention, just make it FAR worse
than she ever thought it could be.
If she says, "My hair makes me look soooo
ugly", just reply, "You know, I wasn't going to
say anything, but......".
Remember, COCKY & FUNNY. It's the combination.
If you really want to be bold, just say, "So
what am I going to get paid for babysitting
tonight?"
Or even better say, "Did this stuff work on
your dad? Why didn't he spank you more?"
I'm cracking myself up over here.
Nothing better than hitting the nail right on
the head, if you catch my meaning.
Again, you're on the right track.
Don't be a Wussy. But make sure you're funny
while you're not being a Wussy.
"Listen here, I didn't call you so I could hear
you complain..." might do the trick, but it's
probably a little over the "jerk" line...
...unless, of course, it's done with the right
tone of voice that communicates sarcasm.
***QUESTION***
Dear Dave, Let me be the one to tell you that
you deserve to sit on a solid gold throne for the
rest of your life with gorgeous female servants
feeding you grapes and fanning you with giant
feathers. Your advanced series is definitely the
best investment I made in my life. After watching
it for the FIRST TIME, my whole perspective on
women changed. I have so much to say, but I'll
try to keep it short: I've been having so much
fun coming up with cocky + funny comments, I had
to share some of my ideas with your readers. Here
are some of my favorite lines I use: If I
happen to get a phone call while Im around a girl
Ive been talking to, Ill bring her up in the
conversation w/ whoever called me, making some
teasing comment about her loud enough for her to
hear. She'll usually give me a face, or flip me
off...so then I say to my friend on the phone,
"yea, she likes me." So simple, yet they eat it
up! I'll tell girls who are walking behind me
to stop following me because Im getting that
stalker vibe from them...and if they want to look
at my ass that bad, they can take a snapshot of it
for $4.99...as long as it's for their personal
enjoyment and not to show off to their friends. I
also like to put a price on my time or presence.
For instance, I'll be talking to a girl for a
little bit, then I'll look down at my watch and
say, "Okay, I talked to you for two minutes, AND I
let you shake my hand...that'll be twenty dollars,
tip not included". Then I'll say that I really
have to get going, and demand their phone number
so I can "collect my money on a more convenient
date." I love this way of communication...it
makes girls attracted to you, and it's so much
more fun than the normal boring stuff. Now, a
quick question. First off, I loved your last
Dating Tip...about Sexual Tension. One of your
best emails. But I have a question about eye
contact...do you ever have to watch for when it's
appropriate? An example would be last week when I
was in a club. I was standing, and I turned around
to face a cute girl who I immediately locked eyes
with. She wasn't going anywhere, she was just
standing. But we were only abut a foot away from
each other looking directly into each others eyes.
I wasn't even going to try to talk to her, because
it was too noisy. But I didn't want to just stand
there, a foot away from her face, just staring,
'cause I figured I would seem like a weirdo...so I
just walked past her. What would you say to do in
situations like this? Are there times when your
rule about eye contact (not looking away until she
does) isn't appropriate? Is proximity to the girl
your eye-locked with an issue? Thanx again
Dave... you're the man. TG, Tacoma
>>>MY COMMENTS:
Well, another great question...
And more shameless advertising for my Advanced
Series. What a great combination.
I digress...
Let's talk about eye contact, and what to do
after you've made it.
Here's the deal, there are a few things that
are DEAD GIVEAWAYS to a woman that you're a big-
time Wussy, and not worth her time.
A few of them are:
1) Can't maintain eye contact
2) Has slumped, submissive posture
3) Fidgets nervously
4) Gives away his power
5) Looks for attention and approval from others
Of course, there are quite a few more examples
of LITTLE THINGS that women look for... to make
QUICK DECISIONS about what kind of man you are...
and INSTANTLY know whether or not you are worthy
of a second thought.
Now, as you've heard me say a million times,
these "decisions" all happen on an SUBCONSCIOUS
LEVEL. Women don't look at a man, then say to a
friend, "Well, he maintained eye contact when I
first looked at him, then he held his head up high
in a dominant posture... so I'm going to give him
a chance".
DUH, no way.
It's an INSTANT FEELING that women get. They
use these little body language cues to instantly
size you up, then respond instantly.
Now, you're asking about a particular facet of
eye contact... specifically, when you're standing
one foot away from her and it happens.
Your question leads me to believe that you
think things must be different if you're close to
a woman... as if the rules should change if she's
closer than 4.35234 feet. If anything, it takes
MORE composure and inner strength to look a woman
in the eyes if she's standing a foot away.
In this case it's even MORE important to not
look away.
And what to say?
Try saying, "I just couldn't help noticing
you... {pause}... STARING at me..."
That's funny.
Or say, "Do you always maintain such strong eye
contact? Or only with guys like me that you can't
help it with?"
Try anything. You're in the right place... I
mean, you don't even have to expend the energy to
walk over and start a conversation!
Even "Hi" is better than walking away.
Once you get over your remaining fear of the
unknown, and you realize that you're in control of
your life and your results, you'll begin to
realize that situations like these are GREAT
opportunities.
...which reminds me of something.
I honestly believe that FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN is
one of the biggest obstacles that guys face with
women.
It may sound silly, but most guys who are
afraid to approach women really don't know exactly
WHAT they're afraid of.
All they know is that they have an INSTANT fear
come up whenever they think of walking up to a
woman they don't know and talking to her.
Of course, a "fear of the unknown" sounds like
an easy thing to fix.
I mean, just realize that you don't even know
what you're afraid of, and it should go away,
right?
Sounds good, but it's WRONG.
The fact is that this is a COMPLEX problem.
I've met guys who have gone to therapy for
YEARS to get over fears... and it didn't work.
Now, I'm not a therapist or psychologist... but
I do know one thing... I used to have this very
same fear. I know EXACTLY what it feels like.
But, the really weird part is that the thing
that helped me get over it wasn't anything that I
expected.
What helped me get past it, and helped me to
start approaching women and getting emails and
numbers from women I didn't know, was simply
UNDERSTANDING what was going on... and then
KNOWING exactly what to do in each situation.
The PROBLEM that I had in the past was that I
just didn't "GET IT" with women. I didn't
understand what made them feel ATTRACTION for one
guy while feeling NOTHING or even like RUNNING
AWAY from another guy.
Now that I do "get it", I have to say that it's
pretty damn interesting. But it's not at all what
I would have expected. In fact, it took me a
couple of YEARS of trying to figure it out to
actually BEGIN to really understand how and why
women feel that instant and magical ATTRACTION
response for some guys... while most guys go their
whole lives without women even noticing them.
But, once I DID get it, everything changed.
In this Mailbag, quite a few guys wrote in who
have had the same experience this week with my
Advanced Series.
They all watched or listened to it, then had a
light bulb come on in their heads.
You can hear it clearly.
Before they spent the 12+ hours going through
the program they didn't "get it."
AFTER they went through the program they DID
get it.
A lot of guys write in to say that "It just
clicked all of a sudden" or "I had a huge Ah-Ha!
when I went through the program."
You'll also notice that most of the guys who
make these comments have read this newsletter for
quite awhile as well.
What I'm trying to say is that my Advanced
Series will totally change the way you see things,
and it will totally change your results with
women.
It's taken me literally YEARS to figure all of
this stuff out, and I can honestly say that it's
nothing like the other books and programs that are
available.
As always, my "Try it free" offer still
stands...
It's simple...
Go order it. I'll send it to you to try at ZERO
COST. Really.
If you like it, keep it and you can pay in
five easy payments. If you don't, just send it
back and you won't even be charged.
All the details are here, along with some great
free audio and video samples:
http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/AdvancedSeries/
And if you'd like to get an introduction to my
best ideas and techniques, go and download my
online eBook right now. You can download it now
and be reading it within just a few minutes. Get
it here:
http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/eBook/
I'll talk to you again soon.
Your Friend,
David D.
P.S. Take a minute and look at all of the different
programs I've created to help you learn how to
meet women. You can check them all out here:
http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/Catalog/
--------------------------------------------------
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Talking to women is a SKILL. And it can be
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***QUESTION***
Hey Dave!
I'm finally starting to "get it". It took a long
time (lots of e-mails read, e-book read, cds
listened, and seminar attended), but one night it
just clicked, and i'm now starting to get some e-
mail/phone numbers. And i'm getting the tea dates
going.
I had one amazing realization today - whenever i
DON'T get an initial meeting after getting the e-
mail, i don't do what i used to which is get
depressed, find fault in myself, and figure i'll
never get anybody. Now, since i'm working on this
next step of getting the initial meeting, i just
see it as a recipe. Maybe with girl "A" i was too
C and not enough F. Maybe with girl "B" I'm not
making her feel comfortable enough of meeting at
my place. I realized that with practice i'll get
the "recipe" right and be able to turn any e-mail
into an initial date. That new mindset has taken a
LONG time to get to and it's mostly due to your
info. Thanks!!
Question: Tonight's first date went really well! I
was "almost too comfortable" and was totally calm
and cool. Poked fun at her, never answered any
questions directly, and i didn't sit around
worrying about whether or not she liked me. and i
could almost tangibly feel the attraction being
amplified!!! But i found out during the date that
she's a single mom. Now, i, personally, don't like
to date single moms for various reasons - not even
for a one-night stand. (a lot of guys disagree and
that's cool - this is my own thing). Could you
suggest a way to ask this prior to the first date?
Perhaps it's my own limiting belief, but it seems
that by asking this, i'm implying that i'm looking
at her as possible long-term material.
Thanks a lot and everybody reading this: BUY THE
CD'S....THEY ROCK!!!
R.
>>>MY COMMENTS:
Well, thanks for the shameless advertising
plug... I really appreciate it.
No, really.
OK, you've asked a VERY interesting question.
It's interesting not because of the content of
the actual question... but more because of what
it SAYS about you and what you're thinking.
When you say, "Can you tell me how to ask a
woman if she has kids before a first date?" it
implies that you think that there's something
wrong with just coming out and asking it.
It's like you're saying, "Well, I know that I
can't just ASK her if she has kids... so can you
tell me some cool trick to get her to spill it
without me having to ask?".
Well guess what?
THIS IS A PROBLEM.
It's not necessary to use trickery when you
want to know something about a woman.
If you want to know if a woman has kids, then
you need to ASK.
Say "Hey, do you have any kids?".
If she says, "Yes", then say, "Great. I'm
really looking for a woman who doesn't have any
kids, but we can be friends."
Let's use a different example.
Let's say you've placed a personal ad online.
Let's say that a cute woman replies.
Let's say that she sends you a picture... but
it only shows her face... and you're only
interested in women who are slim.
Now, you probably would write to me and ask me
to give you some slick way to get her to share how
much she weighs with you without having to ask.
Wrong idea.
Just email her and say, "Hey, how tall are you
and how much do you weigh? I really prefer women
who are slim. Let me know...".
That's it.
Think about it.
If she IS slim, she'll tell you, and probably
be glad that you were up front with her and
direct.
If she ISN'T slim, she'll be glad you told her
now and didn't waste her time.
I think that your problem is probably rooted in
insecurity, and caring too much what other people
think of you.
...by the way... it's NOT OK to say, "Hey, I
really HATE FAT CHICKS... so tell me now, because
if you're fat I'm going to bail...".
That's not cool.
If you act like an adult and expect others to
act like adults, you'll do well with women.
If you pussy-foot around the issue (a perfect
term for you and this) you'll wind up trying to do
things that waste everyone's time.
If you're upfront, direct, and not caring what
other people think of you, then you're going to
make women respond more powerfully.
Guaranteed.
Oh, and GREAT JOB getting your act together
with women. You're doing very well, keep it up.
And feel free to promote my materials anytime you
want in the future.
***COMMENT FROM A WOMAN***
Dear David,
I've been reading your email newsletters...not
because I'm a male needing advice, but because I
am a FEMALE who likes to get insight into what men
are thinking! I'll have to say that what you are
telling these guys is right on target.
I have a girlfriend who is a perfect 10, but she
has the worst luck with men. Know why? They are
TOO NICE TO HER!!!!!!!! I was sitting out by the
pool with her this past weekend, and listening to
her talk about the latest guy she's dating. He's
cute, attentive, sweet, thoughtful, generous,
funny, and a tiger in bed!! BUT, she told me that
he isn't the "one." I asked her why, and this is
exactly what she said, "He's too agreeable.
Everything I say is OK with him...anything I want
to do, go, or think is OK with him. I'm getting
bored. He doesn't have enough personality for me.
He's always smiling, and my thirteen year old
daughter even says he's a wuss for being so nice
all the time. I want a man who's a challenge."
Now, this woman sees this other guy from time to
time, and she'd drop what she's doing and drive 6
hours just to spend one night with him! But that
guy doesn't call regularly and he treats her
poorly, but she'd give her first born child to
have him!
No, it doesn't make sense, David, but that is the
way a lot of Number 10 women are. And if a guy
really wants a 10, your techniques would work like
a charm. Just warn these guys that 10's are very
difficult women to deal with, and they are used to
having every guy's attention, so they need to keep
the game up to keep her from straying. I wish guys
would see that the 10's, although they are pretty
to look at, aren't always worth the effort. My
friends who are 5's would treat men better, if
they could get their attention.
Me? I'm about a 7-8 but I use your techniques on
MEN, and they work quite well. A year ago, I was
dating 4-5 men at time. The one guy that I cared
the least about and brushed off time and again, is
the one I'm dating all the time now! He just hung
in there no matter how many dates I cancelled or
even if I told him I had another date! I even told
him I was dating lots of other men! But, he just
hung in there, and I got tired of the others, and
now I only date him, and we're happy! Oh, I do
still give him a challenge! I am not always
available, and I don't call him often, nor email
him all the time, and when he goes out of town on
work, I don't get all jealous and worry. I don't
have to worry. He can't wait to get back to ME!
He cooks for me and treats me like a Queen.
So...tell those guys this little secret about
women. The 10's love it when you are a challenge,
and they may end up with a 10, but remember that
those women can be the most difficult. Give the
lower numbers a chance sometimes, and they will
find a devoted mate!
Later..
K in SC
>>>MY COMMENTS:
Amen SISTER!
Preach it!
You gotta love honest women.
And you've laid it out for everyone to see.
I wish all men had an older sister like you who
could tell them how it is from an early age...
But, alas, we do not.
I'm going to go read your email again, because
it's GOLD.
Send a picture next time. I promise that I'll
NEVER call you all the time, and I'll NEVER
tolerate you canceling anything on me.
Of course, then you'd fall in love with me, and
I'd have to break your heart.
What a life.
***QUESTION***
Hi there David
Firstly, I would like to say how useful I have
found your Advanced DVD series and DYD book. I
used to be a classic textbook Wussy but that way
of life is definitely going out of the window now!
I have had two emails from two different women
recently (after using your stuff) and I quote them
here as I think all Wussies should read them. The
first one is from a woman who I've known for a
number of years and see her with her friends on
the odd occasion:
`Dating should indeed be fun and relaxed but sadly
most of your gender seem to have forgotten this -
were you not taken to one side at school and told
to be arrogant and aloof etc?? I think some of
them might be due for a refresher course as they
get far too serious, far too quickly. It is not to
be encouraged!! XXXX (the name of the guy) is
doing pretty well at the moment though and only
sees me a couple of times a week and never rings
and hardly ever emails, so he has the right idea!!
I think I have been quite vocal about my disdain
of other boys recently though, so he knows not to
push it.'
This second reply is from a woman I sent a message
to on an Internet dating site. I based the message
around your advice from your Advanced Dating
series:
`YIPEEEEEEEEE!!!!AN OUT OF THE ORDINARY MAN ON
HERE!!!!!!!!!
Im on 189 mens 'fav' list an i can tell u now, so
far not one of em has made me want to know more!
Can u restore my faith....Hummmmm tall order, u
like a challenge?'
It's definitely worth getting your DVD and book as
I would never have had these responses otherwise.
My question is how do I take things further when
meeting women on line? I have watched your friend
on the Advanced DVD series but don't seem to be
able to get the required results. I have started
to get lots of responses from hot women after
sending them a Cocky & Funny message. We then
message each other a few times but suddenly they
stop replying! What am I doing wrong? I try and
use Cocky & Funny but also write `normal' stuff
like what do they like doing etc which I know can
be classed as Wussy talk. Your views would be
gratefully received. Also can you tell your friend
to write that book about Meeting Women On Line -
and put me top of the list to buy it! Keep up the
great work!
J
London, England
>>>MY COMMENTS:
Yes, yes, yes...
You're getting it... you're getting it.
But what are you doing writing NORMAL stuff and
asking NORMAL questions?
I can't believe after spending hours and hours
and hours listening to me talk about why it's
stupid to say lame NORMAL stuff that you'd still
do it.
STOP THAT IMMEDIATELY... don't make me come
down there and bitch-slap the Wuss out of you.
I'll do it. I will.
And you're surprised that women stop responding
to you...
Here, do this.
From now on:
1) Watch the personals every day. Only send
messages to the NEW ads.
2) When you get a reply, email and ask her for her
number. Tell her that you're swamped with a
million messages from supermodels who keep
bragging about how much money they have, and she
needs to act fast or you'll be gone.
3) Get her number as soon as possible, and get her
ON THE PHONE.
4) DO NOT, under ANY circumstances talk about lame
NORMAL stuff.
5) Watch my Advanced DVD Series again. And don't
turn it off until you're reminded of why you
shouldn't say "normal" things.
6) Write another email to me in a week or so when
you're getting better results.
Now get back in there, stop acting normal, and
make something happen!
***SUCCESS STORY***
David,
First of all, thanks again for the valuable
newsletters and the information from your Ebook. I
purchased it a couple months ago and still refer
to it quite often. On to my success story. I was
recently at a buddies bachelor party and the only
single guy out of five. One of our stops was a
downtown bar where my friends wanted to see me go
to work. I found a table with 6 blondes talking
to two guys. One of the dudes looked like a cross
between Ricky Martin and Eminem and the other I
believe was sporting a Member's Only jacket. I
immediately took advantage of the situation and
swooped in to save the day with C&F on overdrive.
I'm not the kind of guy that women approach so
I've learned that if I want to make something
happen, I've got to grab a hold and go for it. The
next thing I know the two guys got up and left and
then the rest of my buddies came in for support.
Married guys make the best "Wingmen". The best
part of the night was getting the number of the
hottest one of their group, something I would have
never done in the past. We spoke on the phone and
have made plans to see each other again. There's a
saying. "If you keep doing what you've always
done, you're going to get what you've always got."
I just wanted to say thanks for allowing me the
opportunity to stop settling and most importantly
stop being a wuss. You da man!! P in Colorado
>>>MY COMMENTS:
Yeah babyyyyyyy!
The reason I love your story so much is because
I'm not the kind of guy that women approach
either. I never have been.
But, after learning this stuff, I've realized
that it's just not necessary to be that kind of
guy.
In fact, most of the guys I know who are the
MOST successful with women aren't particularly
good-looking.
Everything changes when you have a superior
understanding of what's going on... and a set of
tools to get the job done.
Nice, and keep sending in the stories.
By the way, if you want more great ideas for
approaching women... and even approaching big
GROUPS of women, then you MUST check out my
"Approaching Women" DVD/CD program. Inside you
will meet and learn from some of the best
"approachers" in the world... and they'll teach
you some of the most AMAZING techniques for
approaching women... alone, in groups, in every
type of situation...
You can watch some video clips, plus get all
the details here:
http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/ApproachingWomen/
***QUESTION***
Dear David,
I must say KUDOS to you for creating a new man
out of me. Let me explain myself. I ordered your
ebook a while ago and have been getting your
newsletter for the better part of a year. However,
only recently, I decided enough is enough. I
started putting what I read into action to see
what happens. Of course, it really helps that I'm
a well-built muscular tall, dark and handsome man
(LOL). Ain't that what the ladies are looking for?
To clarify in terms of specs, I'm 5'11", of South
Indian origin, and I've been a recreational
bodybuilder for going on 14 years now.
The nightclub I like to frequent to dance in has
a lot of gorgeous women, several easily 9's and
10's. Well, the other night, I approached a girl
who was without a doubt AT LEAST a 10. She was
acting very coy and detached to anybody but the
crowd of guys and girls she was with. Since she
was wearing a cabbie-style hat, I came up to her
and said, "Hey, I like your hat." She smiled and
said, "Thanks" but still was kind of stuck up. So,
then, I said, "Let me guess, you're a taxi-
driver." She looked at me with a "there's NO way
you just said that to me" shocked expression on
her face BUT THEN, she instantly warmed up to me
and replied with a BIG smile on her face, "No,
I'll bet you are though." Well, Dave, I'm a
doctor and I'm sure it helped for her to hear that
but the rest of the night, she was rubbing up
against me and holding me tight, even grinding
with me on the dance floor. What's even more
surprising is that her boyfriend was part of the
crowd and since I introduced myself to the rest of
the group, he was cool with me hanging with them.
I'm willing to bet that if he had not been there,
she would have tried to kiss me and probably even
make out with me. You are definitely THE MAN, THE
MYTH, THE LEGEND, David DeAngelo. Thank you. Now
I apologize for such a long account but I did want
to demonstrate the scenario carefully if anyone
can benefit from it. My question to you is
quite simply this: Why is it that some women seem
totally enamored in person and act like they want
to go out but then never return your phone calls
or initiate calls themselves? I mean, I can tell
that they are not faking their interest in me and
so, what happens once they leave from my presence?
T.M. Michigan
>>>MY COMMENTS:
What?
You mean to tell me that even tall, dark, and
handsome body-builder guys need help, too?
LOL...
It's funny, because most guys don't realize
that even good-looking guys have all the same
challenges with women...
I mean, it certainly doesn't HURT to be a
handsome guy, but women do all the same things, no
matter what a guy looks like.
Back to your question.
Here's the deal, man...
Unfortunately, many attractive women have VERY
low self-esteem.
Many (if not most) of the REALLY attractive
women that you see out on the town are really out
to get ATTENTION.
In other words, they're not looking to meet a
good guy... they're not looking to find someone
who will treat them well... they're not looking
for "love."
They're looking to fill an empty part of their
self-image.
Attention makes many women feel good. Some
women actually enjoy getting attention from guys,
then acting like they DON'T LIKE IT.
Hey, I never said women made sense.
Have you ever known a woman who wears low-cut
blouses, then complains because guys only look at
her breasts while talking to her?
DUH.
If a woman complains about something like this
to me, I'll say something like, "You know, now
that you mention it... are those REAL?"
LOL...
It's crazy.
Look, here are a few things to remember:
1) A woman will behave differently according to
her MOOD. If she's happy when she's with you, then
she might act like she's enjoying herself. If you
call the next day and she's depressed because she
still has no self-esteem, then she's probably not
going to call you.
2) ATTRACTION is the key. You must realize that if
you dial up the attraction by creating Sexual
Tension, etc. then you'll have a much stronger
chance of seeing her again.
3) Don't chase. When you talk to her again, make
sure you don't communicate that you NEED
anything... especially attention or approval.
4) Lose the need to have every woman like you. One
big weakness that most men have is a woman who
won't call back. But remember, women are the same
way. Read the email at the beginning of this
newsletter from the attractive woman for details.
5) You always have options. When you know how to
meet women anytime you want, then it doesn't
matter what happens in a particular situation. And
if it doesn't matter, women can SENSE it. This is
a VERY attractive quality.
You're on the right track...
***QUESTION***
David, I've been a huge fan for the past 2 years
and just received your Advanced Series CD set a
week or so ago. HOLY COW!!! It's the best money
I've EVER spent. I've gotten more phone numbers,
been on more dates and HAD MORE SEX in the past
7-8 days than I have in the past 6 months. We're
talking 180-degree shifts in my interactions with
women...I'm at 100% success right now. To all the
guys out there, attitude is EVERYTHING. KNOW that
you can have any girl you want, let that reflect
onto girls and they WILL smell your confidence.
And, to women, that's very sexy!!! Now, onto my
question... How do Cocky-Funny, self-validating,
confident men deal with attention-getting comments
from women? For example, the other day I'm on the
telephone with one of the girls I met recently and
she was complaining about her hair style. She
says, "A., I look SOOOOO ugly with this hair" (she
STILL was an absolute knock out actually!!). Now,
I thought to myself, What Would David Do in this
situation? Would he tell her, "Oh no sweetie, you
look gorgeous". I thought that seemed pretty
wussy, so I says to her, "Listen here, I didn't
call you so I could listen to you complain...".
Are cocky-funny remarks the right way to deal with
this type of female complaining? Is it just a test
to see if we'll give in to their little games?
KEEP IT UP DAVID!!! Ciao!
A, Indiana
>>>MY COMMENTS:
You are on the RIGHT TRACK here.
Next time a woman complains about herself or
tries to get attention, just make it FAR worse
than she ever thought it could be.
If she says, "My hair makes me look soooo
ugly", just reply, "You know, I wasn't going to
say anything, but...
Remember, COCKY & FUNNY. It's the combination.
If you really want to be bold, just say, "So
what am I going to get paid for babysitting
tonight?"
Or even better say, "Did this stuff work on
your dad? Why didn't he spank you more?"
I'm cracking myself up over here.
Nothing better than hitting the nail right on
the head, if you catch my meaning.
Again, you're on the right track.
Don't be a Wussy. But make sure you're funny
while you're not being a Wussy.
"Listen here, I didn't call you so I could hear
you complain..." might do the trick, but it's
probably a little over the "jerk" line...
...unless, of course, it's done with the right
tone of voice that communicates sarcasm.
***QUESTION***
Dear Dave, Let me be the one to tell you that
you deserve to sit on a solid gold throne for the
rest of your life with gorgeous female servants
feeding you grapes and fanning you with giant
feathers. Your advanced series is definitely the
best investment I made in my life. After watching
it for the FIRST TIME, my whole perspective on
women changed. I have so much to say, but I'll
try to keep it short: I've been having so much
fun coming up with cocky + funny comments, I had
to share some of my ideas with your readers. Here
are some of my favorite lines I use: If I
happen to get a phone call while Im around a girl
Ive been talking to, Ill bring her up in the
conversation w/ whoever called me, making some
teasing comment about her loud enough for her to
hear. She'll usually give me a face, or flip me
off...so then I say to my friend on the phone,
"yea, she likes me." So simple, yet they eat it
up! I'll tell girls who are walking behind me
to stop following me because Im getting that
stalker vibe from them...and if they want to look
at my ass that bad, they can take a snapshot of it
for $4.99...as long as it's for their personal
enjoyment and not to show off to their friends. I
also like to put a price on my time or presence.
For instance, I'll be talking to a girl for a
little bit, then I'll look down at my watch and
say, "Okay, I talked to you for two minutes, AND I
let you shake my hand...that'll be twenty dollars,
tip not included". Then I'll say that I really
have to get going, and demand their phone number
so I can "collect my money on a more convenient
date." I love this way of communication...it
makes girls attracted to you, and it's so much
more fun than the normal boring stuff. Now, a
quick question. First off, I loved your last
Dating Tip...about Sexual Tension. One of your
best emails. But I have a question about eye
contact...do you ever have to watch for when it's
appropriate? An example would be last week when I
was in a club. I was standing, and I turned around
to face a cute girl who I immediately locked eyes
with. She wasn't going anywhere, she was just
standing. But we were only abut a foot away from
each other looking directly into each others eyes.
I wasn't even going to try to talk to her, because
it was too noisy. But I didn't want to just stand
there, a foot away from her face, just staring,
'cause I figured I would seem like a weirdo...so I
just walked past her. What would you say to do in
situations like this? Are there times when your
rule about eye contact (not looking away until she
does) isn't appropriate? Is proximity to the girl
your eye-locked with an issue? Thanx again
Dave... you're the man. TG, Tacoma
>>>MY COMMENTS:
Well, another great question...
And more shameless advertising for my Advanced
Series. What a great combination.
I digress...
Let's talk about eye contact, and what to do
after you've made it.
Here's the deal, there are a few things that
are DEAD GIVEAWAYS to a woman that you're a big-
time Wussy, and not worth her time.
A few of them are:
1) Can't maintain eye contact
2) Has slumped, submissive posture
3) Fidgets nervously
4) Gives away his power
5) Looks for attention and approval from others
Of course, there are quite a few more examples
of LITTLE THINGS that women look for... to make
QUICK DECISIONS about what kind of man you are...
and INSTANTLY know whether or not you are worthy
of a second thought.
Now, as you've heard me say a million times,
these "decisions" all happen on an SUBCONSCIOUS
LEVEL. Women don't look at a man, then say to a
friend, "Well, he maintained eye contact when I
first looked at him, then he held his head up high
in a dominant posture... so I'm going to give him
a chance".
DUH, no way.
It's an INSTANT FEELING that women get. They
use these little body language cues to instantly
size you up, then respond instantly.
Now, you're asking about a particular facet of
eye contact... specifically, when you're standing
one foot away from her and it happens.
Your question leads me to believe that you
think things must be different if you're close to
a woman... as if the rules should change if she's
closer than 4.35234 feet. If anything, it takes
MORE composure and inner strength to look a woman
in the eyes if she's standing a foot away.
In this case it's even MORE important to not
look away.
And what to say?
Try saying, "I just couldn't help noticing
you... {pause}... STARING at me..."
That's funny.
Or say, "Do you always maintain such strong eye
contact? Or only with guys like me that you can't
help it with?"
Try anything. You're in the right place... I
mean, you don't even have to expend the energy to
walk over and start a conversation!
Even "Hi" is better than walking away.
Once you get over your remaining fear of the
unknown, and you realize that you're in control of
your life and your results, you'll begin to
realize that situations like these are GREAT
opportunities.
...which reminds me of something.
I honestly believe that FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN is
one of the biggest obstacles that guys face with
women.
It may sound silly, but most guys who are
afraid to approach women really don't know exactly
WHAT they're afraid of.
All they know is that they have an INSTANT fear
come up whenever they think of walking up to a
woman they don't know and talking to her.
Of course, a "fear of the unknown" sounds like
an easy thing to fix.
I mean, just realize that you don't even know
what you're afraid of, and it should go away,
right?
Sounds good, but it's WRONG.
The fact is that this is a COMPLEX problem.
I've met guys who have gone to therapy for
YEARS to get over fears... and it didn't work.
Now, I'm not a therapist or psychologist... but
I do know one thing... I used to have this very
same fear. I know EXACTLY what it feels like.
But, the really weird part is that the thing
that helped me get over it wasn't anything that I
expected.
What helped me get past it, and helped me to
start approaching women and getting emails and
numbers from women I didn't know, was simply
UNDERSTANDING what was going on... and then
KNOWING exactly what to do in each situation.
The PROBLEM that I had in the past was that I
just didn't "GET IT" with women. I didn't
understand what made them feel ATTRACTION for one
guy while feeling NOTHING or even like RUNNING
AWAY from another guy.
Now that I do "get it", I have to say that it's
pretty damn interesting. But it's not at all what
I would have expected. In fact, it took me a
couple of YEARS of trying to figure it out to
actually BEGIN to really understand how and why
women feel that instant and magical ATTRACTION
response for some guys... while most guys go their
whole lives without women even noticing them.
But, once I DID get it, everything changed.
In this Mailbag, quite a few guys wrote in who
have had the same experience this week with my
Advanced Series.
They all watched or listened to it, then had a
light bulb come on in their heads.
You can hear it clearly.
Before they spent the 12+ hours going through
the program they didn't "get it."
AFTER they went through the program they DID
get it.
A lot of guys write in to say that "It just
clicked all of a sudden" or "I had a huge Ah-Ha!
when I went through the program."
You'll also notice that most of the guys who
make these comments have read this newsletter for
quite awhile as well.
What I'm trying to say is that my Advanced
Series will totally change the way you see things,
and it will totally change your results with
women.
It's taken me literally YEARS to figure all of
this stuff out, and I can honestly say that it's
nothing like the other books and programs that are
available.
As always, my "Try it free" offer still
stands...
It's simple...
Go order it. I'll send it to you to try at ZERO
COST. Really.
If you like it, keep it and you can pay in
five easy payments. If you don't, just send it
back and you won't even be charged.
All the details are here, along with some great
free audio and video samples:
http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/AdvancedSeries/
And if you'd like to get an introduction to my
best ideas and techniques, go and download my
online eBook right now. You can download it now
and be reading it within just a few minutes. Get
it here:
http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/eBook/
I'll talk to you again soon.
Your Friend,
David D.
P.S. Take a minute and look at all of the different
programs I've created to help you learn how to
meet women. You can check them all out here:
http://www.DoubleYourDates.com/Catalog/
--------------------------------------------------
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